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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 45

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of the point of convergence podcast

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as always i am your host exo academian

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ventures into the skies above our heads

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may have begun with the wright brothers

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and their rudimentary attempts at flight

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but within decades those initial crude

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experiments evolved into sophisticated

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spacecraft that could not only take

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humankind soaring into the skies but

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well beyond

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indeed by the 1960s the future for

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humankind seemed clearly to be destined

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for space and eventually for the

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colonization of near and distant planets

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and as we gained in our understanding of

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space flight and as our ever more

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powerful telescopes could peer farther

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and farther into the great expanse of

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the so-called final frontier of outer

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space

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we began to wonder aloud about how long

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it would be before we would discover

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other civilizations perhaps now

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traveling the stars as we hope to do in

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the decades to come and yet no matter

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where we looked and no matter how far we

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looked it seemed that while every nook

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and cranny of that great expanse was

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filled with dazzling displays of starry

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splendor

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life that is sophisticated non-human

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alien life was nowhere to be found

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even something as primitive as bacteria

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remained elusive

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this of course led to the obvious

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question where was all the life we

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assumed was out there

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if there were plenty of planets in

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so-called habitable zones as all of our

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growing body of data seemed to suggest

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why weren't we discovering life

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why weren't we picking up the

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transmissions of distant civilizations

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with our ever more powerful and

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far-reaching sensors and telescopes

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this conundrum is known as the fermi

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paradox which according to wikipedia is

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stated thusly

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the fermi paradox named after

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italian-american physicist enrico fermi

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is the apparent contradiction between

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the lack of evidence for

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extraterrestrial life and various high

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estimates for their probability

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such as some optimistic estimates for

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the drake equation

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now while this dilemma still troubles

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many especially those holding to a more

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traditional understanding of how life in

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the cosmos is likely to have developed

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over the last several billion years

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there are others who have postulated

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that the reasons are obvious once one

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really looks at the question in the

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right way

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in other words the problem lies not in

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the apparent results but in the very

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assumptions we make as to what advanced

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non-human life will look like

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how it would behave and where and how

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we're most likely to find it

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not only do these refreshingly inventive

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forward-thinking ways of seeing this

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issue help us to address the fermi

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paradox but they also open up intriguing

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possibilities as to how we humans may

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evolve to the point where we too can

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follow suit perhaps finding passage into

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the fascinating realms these others may

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already be existing in

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these notions also help those of us

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intimately involved with a topic such as

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the ufo phenomenon to perhaps better

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understand a truth we think is staring

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us in the face

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a truth suggesting these others are not

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only out there but here in and around

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the earth and perhaps have been for as

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long or longer than we have

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these compelling ideas and the

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intriguing potential implications they

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give birth to

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are the very matters we'll seek to

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explore in this the 45th episode of the

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[Music]

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now as i mentioned in the introduction

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there are some especially those who

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cling to a more traditional

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understanding

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who assume that the universe is

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basically lifeless that the fact that we

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found no life in the ways we've been

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looking and in the places we've been

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looking suggest that life just doesn't

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exist out there and of course these same

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people are even more incredulous about

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the notion that ufos may be here because

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if alien life hasn't been found out

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there there's no way it would have been

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found here but i'd just like to point

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out when skeptics claim the chances of

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ufos being aliens are almost nil

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we should be aware that they're relying

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on the highly doubtful notion that our

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present understanding on a multitude of

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topics physics consciousness etc is

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sufficient to make such a calculation to

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begin with

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and that is a highly doubtful notion

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from my point of view

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these skeptics tend to look at these

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things in the same way they are very

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rigid very dogmatic in the way they look

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at these issues and rather than

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questioning some of their assumptions

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they assume rather that the answer is

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already staring us in the face that the

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universe is indeed lifeless and barren

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but thankfully there are plenty of

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others who are pushing the boundaries

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asking fresh questions and circling back

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to ask intriguingly perhaps the fact

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that we haven't found life doesn't

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suggest that it's not out there but they

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were looking in the wrong places and in

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the wrong ways

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and in today's podcast i'd like to

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discuss a couple of different hypotheses

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that have been put forward to explain

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this

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now it's understandable why the fermi

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paradox is a conundrum for so many

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because the numbers are so staggering in

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terms of how many star systems and

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earth-like planets exist out there

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according to new research using data

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from the kepler space telescope

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the estimation is that there could be as

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many as 300 million potentially

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habitable planets just in our milky way

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galaxy

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and there may be 2 trillion galaxies in

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the observable universe

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now those are enormous numbers and when

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you hear them you assume of course that

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it makes sense that there would be life

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on some of those planets perhaps many of

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them

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because again that's just a subset of

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assumed to be habitable planets

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and we assume that if evolution tends to

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roll out universally that life would

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have sprung up in many of those places

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as well and some of it should have

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become sophisticated civilizations and

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presumably should have been already

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exploring the cosmos because they may

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have had a several million years or even

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several billion years head start as

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compared to us

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now of course the government has

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launched official endeavors such as seti

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the search for extraterrestrial

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intelligence

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but the problem is and many will point

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this out

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most of the assumptions behind that

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search has been around technologies such

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as radio transmissions indeed radio

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transmissions were expected to be the

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evidence we'd discover to confirm the

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existence of these et civilizations

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of course this was at a time the 1960s

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and 70s when radio transmissions

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accounted for the majority of

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transmissions for human civilization

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now this is a prime example of what i

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call the inconsequential parameter error

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which relates to when theorists assume

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the same working components of a

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civilization today will be relevant for

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future populations

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rather than realizing that breakthroughs

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in understanding fundamentally change

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the nature of the question and often

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make former parameters irrelevant

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now let's tie this into the ufo

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phenomenon

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now for ufo enthusiasts the answer has

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been found et civilizations do exist

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because they're already here in the form

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of ufos and their alien occupants

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they're just being stealthy

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and we expected to understand more of

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their means of travel and perhaps their

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source solar system and planet in due

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time however while various contact d

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abductees spoke about being told about

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such locations

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under closer scrutiny much of the

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information provided by these supposed

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aliens seem to be either nonsensical or

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so vague as to not be helpful

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in other words when people try to

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actually trace these supposed planets to

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star maps it just didn't pan out and of

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course that begs the question why why

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would these others that are supposedly

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aliens or claiming to be aliens that

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have come from far-flung star systems be

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telling people incorrect information in

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other words it seems sometimes that they

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are merely playing with people perhaps

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telling them what they want to hear

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now over time via the observant eye of

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researchers such as jacques vallee and j

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ellen heineck who really did attempt to

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gather data and study this phenomena

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with as few preconceived notions as

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possible which is always a good idea

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the origin

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source for these apparent visitors

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shifted to more of an interdimensional

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variety and of course we've discussed

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this on many times on this podcast

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now this interdimensional hypothesis

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suggests these others may be slipping in

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from some parallel reality that exists

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right alongside ours

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and in that sense it was questioned

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whether visitors is the correct term to

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use at all

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since they may have been here all along

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indeed in books like passport to magonia

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from folklore to flying saucers and

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wonders in the sky unexplained aerial

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objects from antiquity to modern times

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jacques vallee has made the paradigm

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shaking suggestion that the beings we

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encounter today and label as quote

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unquote space aliens

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may be the very same entities that were

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titled the little people from distant

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folklore including creatures such as gin

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fey goblins etc

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if these beings are interdimensional

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they may be popping in and out of our

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reality at will

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and some of them may indeed be

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considered co-denisons of planet earth

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they may not live here all the time but

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perhaps some of the time

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the picture gets even more obscured or

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at least complicated

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when one considers that human beings

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perceive a very small slice of the total

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data out there

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and because of that more nuanced

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researchers rejected the idea that these

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beings would even have to be popping out

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of our world in order to explain why

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they're so rarely cited

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they could be the argument goes existing

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in a kind of shadow biome that is simply

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not perceivable by us at least not

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regularly when you add to this picture

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the notion that these others may have

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the capacity to alter our perceptions in

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such a way as to render themselves and

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their structures invisible

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then the options become even more what

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you might call interesting now much of

285
00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:18,480
this latter argument is based on the

286
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:20,079
understanding that what we humans

287
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:22,880
perceive as reality is actually a

288
00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:26,079
construction put together by our brains

289
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,320
we take in data through the retinas of

290
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:30,720
our eyes for instance then our brain

291
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:33,120
generates or renders an image that we

292
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:36,320
perceive as what's actually out there

293
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:38,480
but of course what we're actually seeing

294
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:43,120
is a construction a construct full stop

295
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:45,279
now with that background in place both

296
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:47,040
in terms of the history of the ufo

297
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:49,839
phenomenon as well as the conditions the

298
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:52,160
observations that have given rise to the

299
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,680
fermi paradox

300
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:56,160
i'd like to discuss two different very

301
00:12:02,389 --> 00:11:58,959
different hypotheses that both offer

302
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:02,399
very intriguing possibilities to explain

303
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:05,360
these two observations both what we find

304
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:07,360
in the ufo phenomenon those of us who

305
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:10,160
are deeply invested in this topic as

306
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:12,320
well as what has been found apparently

307
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,720
that has given rise to the fermi paradox

308
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:16,639
in other words why aren't we finding

309
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:19,040
evidence in a clear way of et

310
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,680
civilizations out there

311
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:23,120
now at this point i would like to

312
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:25,519
suggest to you that if you're primarily

313
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:28,639
focused on determining in what way ufos

314
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:31,600
and alien intelligence are real

315
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:33,440
you may be missing an accompanying

316
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:35,760
question you should be asking just as

317
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,880
regularly even though many do not

318
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,040
that question is this

319
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:44,000
in what way is the everyday waking world

320
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,399
we trust as a baseline actually real

321
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:51,120
for researcher donald hoffman that trust

322
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:53,760
may be very well misplaced

323
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,000
as we already touched on we know that we

324
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:58,639
only observe a tiny slice of the total

325
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:01,120
spectrum of what is manifesting out

326
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:04,000
there in supposed objective reality

327
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:05,760
but hoffman has taken this to an

328
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,320
entirely new level proposing in fact

329
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:10,560
that what we actually perceive is not

330
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:13,440
just a limited subset of the totality

331
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:16,959
but in fact a total fiction

332
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,519
now hoffman calls his hypothesis

333
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:21,920
conscious realism and he has written a

334
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:24,880
book called the case against reality why

335
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,240
evolution hid the truth from our eyes

336
00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:30,800
now we would do well to remember that as

337
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:33,760
einstein put it time and space are modes

338
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:36,079
by which we think and not conditions in

339
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:37,680
which we live

340
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:40,399
and hoffman also points out that stephen

341
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:42,720
pinker sums up the argument well

342
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,519
by saying quote we are organisms not

343
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:48,480
angels and our minds are organs

344
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,279
not pipelines to the truth our minds

345
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:53,760
evolved by natural selection to solve

346
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,760
problems that were life and death

347
00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:57,839
matters to our ancestors

348
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,800
not to commune with correctness

349
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:02,480
unquote

350
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:05,279
now to be clear hoffman's suggestions

351
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:07,760
are far-reaching he's suggesting again

352
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,399
not that we just perceive a small subset

353
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:12,639
of the totality but that actually what

354
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,839
we perceive is entirely a fiction i'll

355
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:18,000
go into what that fiction consists of in

356
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:20,320
a moment but i firstly wanted to make it

357
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:21,360
clear

358
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:23,120
what hoffman is suggesting how

359
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:25,920
far-reaching what he is suggesting is

360
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:29,199
again he is saying what we perceive has

361
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:31,360
nothing in common with the objective

362
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:34,480
truth of what's actually out there in

363
00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:37,279
fact he concludes based on equations he

364
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,000
and his team have done that the chances

365
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,639
that what we see what we perceive is

366
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:44,639
actually descriptive of objective

367
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:47,120
reality is precisely

368
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,639
zero

369
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,399
now of course i'm sure you're asking

370
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:52,560
yourself at this point how can that be

371
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:54,800
the case it's one thing to acknowledge

372
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:57,279
that we're not perceiving all of what's

373
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,880
out there but to claim that we're

374
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:00,720
actually perceiving none of it seems

375
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:03,600
like an outlandish notion what evidence

376
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,320
is there to support such a notion

377
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,639
well here i'd like to quote from hofmann

378
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:10,720
and his book the case against reality

379
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:12,720
how evolution hid the truth from our

380
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:13,760
eyes

381
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:16,560
quote the tinkering of evolution can

382
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:19,040
concoct perceptual interfaces with

383
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:21,839
endless forms most beautiful and most

384
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:22,959
wonderful

385
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:25,279
the vast majority of these however are

386
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,000
to us most inconceivable

387
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:30,079
evolution is not finished tinkering with

388
00:15:36,069 --> 00:15:32,160
the perceptual interfaces of homo

389
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,079
sapiens the mutations that bless 1 in 25

390
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:38,880
with some form of synesthesia are surely

391
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,399
part of the process

392
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:42,639
and some of these mutations might catch

393
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:45,120
on much of the tinkering centers on our

394
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,040
perceptions of color

395
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,000
evolution defies our silly stricture

396
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:52,959
that our perceptions must be vertical

397
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:55,440
it freely explores endless forms of

398
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:58,399
sensory interfaces hitting now and then

399
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,279
on novel ways to shepherd our endless

400
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,440
foraging for fitness

401
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:05,040
unquote

402
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:07,040
now to break down that argument in its

403
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:09,920
simplest form it goes like this

404
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:13,600
evolution has one goal one aim one

405
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,320
mission and that is to keep us alive

406
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:18,720
long enough that we can reproduce and

407
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,399
perpetuate the species full stop in

408
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:24,320
other words if we take evolutionary

409
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:27,519
theory seriously then it would be in no

410
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:30,480
way beholden to the notion of actually

411
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:33,839
presenting to us reality or a picture

412
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:36,160
that's descriptive of what's actually

413
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:37,440
out there

414
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:39,839
rather hoffman suggests we should think

415
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,240
about our perception as kind of like a

416
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:45,040
desktop interface and on a desktop

417
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,279
interface you have of course icons and

418
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,199
folders and things like that

419
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,440
and you may drag an email into your

420
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,480
trash can icon and that might delete it

421
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:55,680
of course

422
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:58,079
but that is not reality we are aware of

423
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:00,720
that clearly there are bits and bytes

424
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:04,400
transistors voltage etc behind what's

425
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,640
actually going on with our computers we

426
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:08,559
don't take it literally that when we

427
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,280
drag a folder into a trash can that

428
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:13,839
that's actually representing the reality

429
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:16,720
rather it's a useful illusion it's a

430
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,959
useful presentation to help us

431
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:20,640
accomplish something

432
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:22,959
and in the same way hoffman is saying

433
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:25,520
that is what our senses are presenting

434
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:28,799
to us our brain has evolved to present

435
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,240
to us icons within an interface a kind

436
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:34,799
of virtual reality that helps keep us

437
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,240
alive it has no interest whatsoever in

438
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:40,799
showing us objective truth it merely

439
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:43,679
presents whatever it can to keep us

440
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:44,960
alive

441
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,640
now when you step back and think about

442
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:48,720
this when you really read the arguments

443
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:51,120
that hoffman is making it begins to make

444
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,720
a lot of sense

445
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:54,640
and i have to say what's fascinating

446
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:57,520
about this as a software engineer

447
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:00,720
programmer is that this to me sounds an

448
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,280
awful lot like a self-learning kind of

449
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:05,679
artificial intelligence which makes

450
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:08,000
progress through a long and never-ending

451
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:11,440
process of iteration and correction and

452
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,320
what's key to the algorithm is variation

453
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,640
selection retention

454
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:18,400
remember that a key component of

455
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:21,280
evolution is to quote do things on the

456
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:23,520
cheap which again from a programming

457
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:25,919
point of view just means always strive

458
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:28,799
for maximum efficiency write as little

459
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,559
code as you need to

460
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:32,400
why don't we have a six digit on our

461
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,840
hand for instance

462
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:36,000
because the cost likely isn't worth the

463
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,919
payoff that's exactly the kind of

464
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,160
iterative process that evolution takes

465
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,720
us through it tries various experiments

466
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,039
various iterations and then makes

467
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:47,360
progress by arriving at things that

468
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:50,799
pragmatically work well full stop

469
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:52,400
now when you stop and think about how

470
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:55,200
this might apply to the ufo phenomenon

471
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:58,080
what's fascinating is when you step back

472
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:00,080
you realize that this could be a kind of

473
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:02,640
program put in place by for instance a

474
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:05,200
sophisticated alien intelligence that

475
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:07,760
seated us on this planet and they could

476
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:10,799
then leave they could move on let the

477
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,280
process take its course and then perhaps

478
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:15,520
come back periodically every few

479
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:17,600
thousand years perhaps to see how the

480
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,000
experiment is proceeding

481
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:22,400
now on a previous podcast we discussed

482
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,440
jacqueline's control system hypothesis

483
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:26,720
well according to what we're talking

484
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:29,600
about here evolution itself that entire

485
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:32,000
process could be part of this control

486
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:33,200
system

487
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,720
and of course it should not be

488
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:36,799
surprising to us therefore that they can

489
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:38,960
seemingly intervene in our

490
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:41,520
civilization's history without us being

491
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,000
very aware of them because again all

492
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:46,720
we're seeing is the virtual reality that

493
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:49,039
evolution which is perhaps their seated

494
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:51,840
program is presenting to us they are

495
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:54,400
working behind the scenes perhaps in the

496
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:57,120
more objective reality to actually

497
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:59,039
influence us and perhaps steer the

498
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:01,360
entire course of our civilization's

499
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:02,880
history

500
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:05,520
and interestingly hoffman himself has

501
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:07,520
said that this addresses the fermi

502
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:11,039
paradox because of course he argues that

503
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:13,360
all we've been studying thus far the

504
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,039
entire structure of space-time is just

505
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:19,440
our headset our virtual reality we're

506
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:21,679
existing in that our avatars are

507
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,120
existing in the aliens aren't there they

508
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:27,440
are actually in the objective reality

509
00:20:30,909 --> 00:20:29,919
beyond the virtual experience that we

510
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:30,919
all

511
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,280
now if you're concerned that this seems

512
00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:37,200
rather defeatist that we're always

513
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:38,799
doomed to be in a kind of virtual

514
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:41,600
reality that doesn't depict the actual

515
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:44,000
objective reality at all

516
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:46,480
take heart because from hoffman's point

517
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:48,799
of view when we get to this point in

518
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:51,760
history part of the lesson may be to

519
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,799
finally realize this and to realize that

520
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:56,640
consciousness which is actually

521
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:00,799
hoffman's hypothesis is fundamental not

522
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,600
matter energy etc in other words

523
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:06,080
physicalism to his point of view is not

524
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:09,120
fundamental consciousness is and in fact

525
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:11,760
what he sees as fundamental to reality

526
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:14,559
is a kind of social network of conscious

527
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:15,760
agents

528
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:18,159
what's even more encouraging is that

529
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:20,000
from his point of view

530
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,760
once we get to this point where we

531
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:23,840
realize we are basically all

532
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:26,720
hallucinating a virtual reality we can

533
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:29,520
begin to develop methods to actually tap

534
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:32,400
into the objective reality beyond there

535
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,559
and actually tap into the conscious

536
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,480
agents communicate with the conscious

537
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,120
agents that exist outside the virtual

538
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:41,679
reality and from hoffman's point of view

539
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,320
he believes that actually that reality

540
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:46,559
is teeming with life

541
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,480
absolutely teeming with life we will

542
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:51,120
likely be overwhelmed by how much life

543
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:52,960
is actually out there and what's

544
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:55,360
exciting is that from this point of view

545
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:57,120
we are now at the point of history where

546
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,240
we can begin that new pioneering journey

547
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,720
that actually the final frontier is not

548
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:03,760
space

549
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:13,280
the final frontier is what is beyond the

550
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:16,240
construct beyond the matrix you might

551
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:17,760
say

552
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,159
so hoffman's conscious realism is

553
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:22,720
certainly one fascinating solution

554
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:25,200
potentially to this issue both

555
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:28,080
addressing the fermi paradox as well as

556
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:29,919
what might be going on with the ufo

557
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:31,600
phenomenon

558
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:32,960
now i'd like to look at a different

559
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:34,799
hypothesis that approaches this from a

560
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:36,400
completely different

561
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:39,360
point of view but also offers intriguing

562
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:40,799
possibilities

563
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,799
this hypothesis is known as the

564
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:44,960
transcension hypothesis

565
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,320
now this hypothesis like hoffman's

566
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:50,320
does address the fermi paradox and

567
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,000
potentially explains where all the

568
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:54,960
aliens are quote unquote hiding

569
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:58,000
now again as with hoffman's points much

570
00:23:01,510 --> 00:23:00,080
of this comes down to our faulty

571
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:01,520
assumptions

572
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:05,120
discuss something called the kardashev

573
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:06,000
scale

574
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,679
this is a method of measuring a

575
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:09,840
civilization's level of technological

576
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:12,240
advancement based on the amount of

577
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,039
energy it is able to use the assumption

578
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:17,039
was for a long period of time when we

579
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:19,120
looked at our own civilization and how

580
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:22,000
we grew larger as we used more and more

581
00:23:26,230 --> 00:23:24,159
energy that we assumed that other

582
00:23:28,149 --> 00:23:26,240
civilizations would follow a similar

583
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,159
path and that this would make them

584
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:30,480
identifiable to us this would leave

585
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:33,600
traces that would be detectable by us

586
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,559
now according to the kardashev scale a

587
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:39,120
type 1 civilization also called a

588
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:42,720
planetary civilization can quote use and

589
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:45,279
store all of the energy available on its

590
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:48,640
planet so that's a type 1 civilization

591
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:50,799
next you have what is considered a type

592
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:53,760
2 civilization which quote also called a

593
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,039
stellar civilization can use and control

594
00:24:01,750 --> 00:23:59,760
at the scale of its planetary system

595
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:01,760
unquote in other words a type 2

596
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:04,080
civilization can harness all of the

597
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:07,440
energy of its entire star system its sun

598
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,679
then you have a type 3 civilization

599
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:12,240
which quote also called a galactic

600
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:14,960
civilization can control energy at the

601
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:19,279
scale of its entire host galaxy unquote

602
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:21,760
a type 3 civilization has progressed to

603
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:24,000
the point where it can harness the

604
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,720
energy of an entire galaxy for instance

605
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,480
perhaps the black holes within that

606
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:31,039
galaxy that generate enormous amounts of

607
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:34,320
energy that was for a long time the sort

608
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:36,240
of working assumption about how

609
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:38,799
civilizations would advance and progress

610
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:40,240
over time

611
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,559
now to be clear the assumption was not

612
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:44,080
just that they would advance in this

613
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:46,400
predictable way from harnessing a

614
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:48,400
planet's energy to a solar system's

615
00:24:54,310 --> 00:24:51,279
energy to a galaxy's energy but that

616
00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:54,320
their footprint would also be evident as

617
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:56,720
well in other words if it is a galactic

618
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:59,039
level civilization in other words a type

619
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,480
3 civilization

620
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:02,400
there should be a massive footprint you

621
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:04,640
should see evidence of their dominance

622
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,520
of an entire galaxy now of course if you

623
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:09,520
think about it the kardashev scale that

624
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:12,400
we just described ties in with the fermi

625
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:15,520
paradox if that is how civilizations do

626
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:18,159
indeed predictably progress through

627
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,640
different levels of civilization then

628
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:22,799
why aren't we seeing them why are we not

629
00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:24,720
finding them why are we not picking up

630
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:27,039
this massive footprint that should exist

631
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:29,440
from these civilizations that may be

632
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,640
millions or billions of years beyond us

633
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:34,720
well of course one option is that they

634
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,400
simply don't exist that these

635
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,159
civilizations either

636
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:40,799
never formed or perhaps formed and blew

637
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,120
themselves up indeed that's the

638
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:45,279
conclusion that some people actually

639
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,520
draw based on the evidence but when you

640
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,760
step back and think about it you realize

641
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:51,840
this will only be the case if our

642
00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:54,000
assumptions are correct

643
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:56,799
now the kardashev scale was proposed by

644
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:00,159
soviet astronomer nikolai kardashev in

645
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:02,080
1964

646
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,520
it certainly looked as if that's the way

647
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:09,520
civilizations progressed because that's

648
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,320
how our civilization was progressing as

649
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:14,400
we became more sophisticated our

650
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:17,039
footprint got larger and our energy

651
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:20,480
usage went up but then times changed and

652
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:23,360
the assumptions changed as well

653
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:25,760
for instance in 1999

654
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:28,080
john d barrow proposed a scale of

655
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:31,279
civilization types based not on size and

656
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:33,520
energy usage but their ability to

657
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:37,440
control matter at different micro scales

658
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:39,360
in other words according to barrow's

659
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,000
model that was proposed decades after

660
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:44,080
the kardashians scale the footprint

661
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:46,720
would go in the opposite direction that

662
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:49,600
sophistication would lead to ever more

663
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,480
micro scale understandings of reality

664
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:54,559
and a kind of nanotechnology that would

665
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:57,679
also involve a technological singularity

666
00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:00,880
that married together consciousness and

667
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:02,960
an atomic level microengineering

668
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:04,400
basically

669
00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:06,640
now in the kardashev scale we discussed

670
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:08,960
three different types of civilizations

671
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:11,679
that would progress predictably well in

672
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:13,520
the barrow scale again it goes in the

673
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:15,520
opposite direction there are seven

674
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,679
levels the first one is when a

675
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:19,600
civilization is able to manipulate

676
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:22,000
objects of its own scale

677
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:24,320
the second one is when it can manipulate

678
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:25,679
genes

679
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:27,840
third is the ability to manipulate

680
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:29,440
molecules

681
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:31,279
fourth the ability to manipulate

682
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:33,039
individual atoms

683
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,000
then manipulate atomic nuclei

684
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:38,960
then manipulate elementary particles and

685
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:42,480
finally manipulate space-time structure

686
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:43,840
itself

687
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:46,880
now this transcension hypothesis plays

688
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:49,520
on these assumptions put forward by john

689
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:52,399
d barrow the model that suggests that

690
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,799
ever more micro levels of reality are

691
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:56,559
what's involved here

692
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:58,960
john m smart was the one that proposed

693
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:01,440
the transcension hypothesis and i'd like

694
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:03,120
to quote him now

695
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:05,760
quote in a nutshell the transcension

696
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,000
hypothesis predicts constrained

697
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:10,480
transcension of intelligence from the

698
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:13,600
universe rather than expansion i.e

699
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:16,159
colonization within the universe by

700
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:19,200
intelligence wherever it arises

701
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:21,840
if the hypothesis is correct the reason

702
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:23,679
we don't see and haven't heard from

703
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:26,720
advanced civilizations anywhere is that

704
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:28,960
the vast majority leave the visible

705
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:31,120
universe as they develop

706
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:33,120
and the few that do not are very

707
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:35,520
unlikely to be visible to us with our

708
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,520
presently weak seti abilities unquote

709
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:41,919
now on this podcast before we've briefly

710
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,320
touched on the technological singularity

711
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,720
that our civilization is quickly

712
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:48,080
approaching

713
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:50,799
what's being suggested by smart here is

714
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:53,120
that there may be many civilizations

715
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:54,960
more sophisticated than us that reached

716
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:57,679
this point and did indeed pass through

717
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,039
this singularity point and effectively

718
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,120
exited our universe

719
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:05,520
what he's suggesting is that size of

720
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,159
course is relative there is as much to

721
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:10,320
explore at the micro level of the

722
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,000
universe as there is at the macro

723
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:16,559
in fact when you tie in consciousness

724
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:19,120
and virtual reality and computer

725
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:21,760
simulations it may be much more

726
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,159
efficient and interesting for a

727
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,320
civilization that reaches a sufficient

728
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:28,799
level of technological understanding to

729
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:31,120
create a kind of virtual reality at a

730
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,640
micro scale somehow non-locally attuned

731
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:36,559
consciousness within that virtual

732
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:39,760
reality and exists there and if they did

733
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:42,080
that they would effectively leave the

734
00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:44,480
causal structure of our cosmos

735
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,480
altogether

736
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:49,440
so just as with hoffman's hypothesis

737
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,159
here we have a postulation that could

738
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,720
address not only the fermi paradox

739
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:56,559
but also address what we're observing

740
00:30:01,909 --> 00:29:59,200
with the ufo phenomenon because this

741
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:01,919
level of sophistication would allow them

742
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:04,480
to manipulate space-time structure

743
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:07,120
itself which of course fits very well

744
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,360
with what has been observed not only in

745
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:11,440
the vehicles we see in the skies but

746
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:13,919
also in the beings and how for instance

747
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:15,760
the interior of a ship might be

748
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:17,840
incredibly large when compared to what

749
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,000
it looked like from the outside again

750
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:22,960
they seem to know how to scale space up

751
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,600
and down in this manner

752
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:27,200
and now i'd like to leave you with a few

753
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:28,720
concluding thoughts

754
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:30,799
when we reflect on both cases we

755
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,159
discussed today

756
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,080
whether these others are coming at us

757
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:36,720
from some nano pocket of our reality

758
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:38,880
that we could only hope to detect if we

759
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,360
knew exactly when and where to look

760
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:43,760
or they're operating with impunity in

761
00:30:48,149 --> 00:30:45,760
and around us but in such a way that our

762
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,159
virtual reality interface has no

763
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:50,880
capacity to detect because it has no

764
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,840
corresponding avatar or icon

765
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:55,679
we should not be surprised that there

766
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:58,640
are realities and intelligences beyond

767
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,799
what we can currently comprehend

768
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:02,240
or detect

769
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:03,919
and we should make this point to those

770
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:06,080
who would suggest the chances of aliens

771
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,200
being in our midst are almost nil

772
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:11,039
it also occurs to me that if a

773
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,360
civilization sufficiently advanced

774
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:15,039
beyond our current level

775
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:17,200
wanted to remain unnoticed they would

776
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:20,000
have the capacity to do so indeed both

777
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:22,000
scenarios we discussed today would

778
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:24,159
suggest that's the case

779
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:26,960
the thing is when vision extends beyond

780
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,679
the constraints of linear time as with

781
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:32,000
these others who exist in both the cases

782
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:34,799
we discussed today beyond our space-time

783
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:36,080
construct

784
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:38,080
then intervention wouldn't have to be

785
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,120
discernible by the natives at all

786
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:43,440
because the slightest of imperceptible

787
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,480
nudges here and there could predictably

788
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,200
change the course of development

789
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:51,760
therefore considering that these others

790
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:54,080
are being seen by us and that we're

791
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:57,200
perceiving them intervening in our lives

792
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:58,960
and furthermore that the level of

793
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,679
intervention and noticeable interaction

794
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,840
by some of these others has apparently

795
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:06,080
increased say since the dawn of the

796
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,519
atomic age

797
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:09,679
one could logically argue that their

798
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,799
presence coming slowly but surely into

799
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:14,480
our collective awareness

800
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:17,840
is indeed part of the plan

801
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:20,320
and on that note we've come to the close

802
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:22,159
of another edition of the point of

803
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,559
convergence podcast i'd like to thank

804
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,159
the new patreons that are supporting

805
00:32:31,149 --> 00:32:28,080
this podcast if you would like to

806
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,159
support the podcast you can do so at

807
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:32,880
patreon.com

808
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:35,120
exo academian

809
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,200
but until next time friends from deep

810
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,039
within the blue ridge mountains of north

811
00:32:44,590 --> 00:32:42,159
carolina this is exo academian signing